Dark NEF's - one more time

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md999
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Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 30.09.2018 23:22

I know this has been discussed before but I'm having the issue with NEF's exporting into HF dark from Lightroom Clasic CC(7.5). I'm a new user so I've had no previous experience of it working correctly. Based on the previous discussions, I think I've got things set up correctly. The Adobe DNG converter is 10.5. Export is set to DNG. For the Raw codec, I've tried Adobe RGB and ProPhoto RGB. The pictures show what I think are the important settings. I appreciate any help!
Mike
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Stas Yatsenko » 01.10.2018 12:03

Make sure you're using Helicon Focus 7. If the problem persists with Focus 7, it's most likely not on our end (i. e. it's Lightroom is generating a dark image, not Helicon Focus displaying it incorrectly).

md999
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 02.10.2018 04:13

It's the current version, 7.0.2.

BobStone
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by BobStone » 02.10.2018 13:54

Have you tried simply opening the NEF files in Helicon Focus?

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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Stas Yatsenko » 02.10.2018 14:40

Yes, that's an interesting question - are the images also dark when opened directly (using the raw-in-dng-out decoder under "RAW development settings")?

md999
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 03.10.2018 07:23

I think this may to tie into a question from earlier this year about xmp files. I tried a few tests:

1. From LR, Export -> Export -> Export to Helicon Focus as DNG files. The images are dark in HF as if no LR changes were included. They actually look a little darker than the originals. Odd that that small thumbnails for the Source Images look correct. If I save the rendered file as a DNG, it imports into LR with the correct color. If I save as a TIFF, it looks like the original with no LR adjustments.

2. From LR, Export -> Helicon Focus, the images look correct but they're coming in as TIFF's when I thought they should be DNG. If I save the rendered file as a TIFF, the color is correct. I can't save as a DNG. It tells me to open the files as RAW files and use RAW in - DNG Out which doesn't appear.

3. If I open the RAW files directly from HF, they come in dark as do the Source Image thumbnails. If I save as a TIFF, and then import into LR, it's dark in LR. If I save as a DNG, and then import into LR, it's correct in LR.

So, they only two ways to end up with the correct DNG in LR, forces me to work with dark images in HF which can make it difficult to see fine details.

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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Stas Yatsenko » 03.10.2018 10:47

One explanation I can think of that fits all the experiments is that Lightroom does some exposure correction, and then, when you export images as DNG, it saves the corrections in an XMP file instead of making the changes to the image data itself. And when you export as TIFF, it has no choice but to embed the changes into the TIFF image data itself because TIFF is not used with XMP sidecar files.

I'm not sure what we can do about it, since I don't think there's any way for us to apply the Lightroom corrections.

Please send us one sample source image that we can import into Lightroom and then reproduce your experiments. Send it to heliconsoft@gmail.com, either directly or as a download link to some cloud storage.

Jrsforums
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Jrsforums » 03.10.2018 15:50

To my knowledge, XMP info is normally written into the DNG files.

The is a setting in Lightroom ‘catalog settings’ to “automatically write XMP info to files”, rather than just save those settings in the LR catalog. I would assume on export these would be include in the file, but I do not work with DNG enough to be sure. You may want to ensure this is checked and try doing the process again to see if it changes anything.

md999
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 04.10.2018 06:59

DNG is similar to other non-RAW formats like JPEG and TIFF in that the metadata is written into the file. Since the RAW formats are proprietary, it can't do that so it writes to XMP files. The DNG should have the info inside. Similar to last night, If I Export -> HF, they come in as TIFF's with the correct color but then I can't save as a DNG. If I Export-> Export -> Export to HF, they come is as dark DNG's but save as a correct color DNG. Also, even though the images come in as dark DNG's, the source Image preview thumbnails look correct so on some level HF appears to using the metadata.

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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Stas Yatsenko » 04.10.2018 10:52

The correct thumbnail doesn't mean Helicon Focus is using the metadata, it most likely means that Lightroom has generated a correct thumbnail which is a separate JPEG image embedded into the DNG file.
Have you tried Jrsforums's suggestion (thanks for the tip!) to check whether Lightroom is set to embed XMP data into the file? If you did, and it still doesn't work, we'll need a sample file to test against.

md999
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 06.10.2018 07:46

Yes, LR is writing to changes into the XMP files. What's the best way to send you files?

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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by Stas Yatsenko » 08.10.2018 10:17

Upload it to any cloud storage of your liking and send us a download link to heliconsoft@gmail.com

md999
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Re: Dark NEF's - one more time

Post by md999 » 22.10.2018 00:28

Stas,

Sorry for the delay. I uploaded 3 files to Dropbox. You should have the link.

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