External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

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Treas
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Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

Hello,

I'm about to evaluate (not licensed = bought already) Helicon Remote v 3.3.7.0.

- CANON EOS 450D
- TAMRON SP AF 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Makro
- Studio Flashes wired (cable) to hot shoe of camera.

I read in the manual, chapter "Shooting with flash":
"If you are using a Canon camera with a non-Canon flash you have to switch Live View off during shooting in order for the flash to fire."

So I have set "Activate live view when tanking a shot" to NO.

... but the flash does not trigger when shooting.

After a lot of try and error (remove memory card, different settings, ...) I found out that the flash trigger if I set the lens to manual focus.
When it is set to auto focus (needed for focus stacking - the reason to be interested in Helicon Remote) it does not flash.

- Anything I do wrong ?
- Known problem or shortcoming of the camera, the lens of the combination of both ?
- Not working, because I have no license (by the way, I have not found what is limited in evolution mode of Helicon Remote).

Thx.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

It could be caused by some other camera body settings. The flash definitely shouldn't be tied to manual focus, but we don't know the specific cause of this issue.
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

Thx Stas for answering. What particular functions to you have in mind with "other camera body settings" ... what settings should I give a try ?
Do you exclude the lens to be the trouble maker ?
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

I can't say anything specific or exclude anything, because it concerns the inner working of the camera firmware which only Canon programmers understand.
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

I have found the time today to dedicate again two hours trying to make this work ...

a) Use of a CANON lens instead of the TAMRON. NO GO.
b) Firmware upgrade to 1.1.0 (the latest version available). NO GO.
c) Disconnected the external flash (removed the flash shoe) and opened the build in flash. NO GO.

Next was not to shot with manual setting but fully automatic.
The flash release now - but the shooting behavior is "strange".

The mirror seems to open, then close and then take the shot with the internal flash engaged.
No effect on this behaviour with any setting in HELICON REMOTE or the camera.

I expect the camera to behave like pressing the shot bottom on the camera = taking a picture.

At his point I have even closed the internal flash.

No way at all to make a simple remote shot with HELICON REMOTE like pressing the shot botton on the camera.
It seems Live View is the trouble maker - since it is controlled wrong or whatever.

Has anybody a 450D in use with HELICON REMOTE ?

Anbody using focus stacking with external flash and a CANON camera ... if yes what model ?
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

There's nothing wrong here. And yes, live view is what causes it. Make sure "Activate live view when tanking a shot" to No, turn live view off, then press "Take shot", and you'll get what you call a "normal" shot.
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

Stas, I found the reason:

- Lens set to AF (Auto Focus)
- "Activate live view when tanking a shot" = No

I take a shot BUT as described above live view engage before the shot.

HERE IS THE NEW OBERSERVATION:
After the first shot only and for some seconds only, in a right low corner of the live view window a message pop up:
"This camera requires the lense to be in manual focus mode to shoot without live view".
AHA !
One must be lucky to recognice - should be imporved.

If I set the lens to manual focus (what I did and described above), it shot without live view and it shot with flash = behave correct ... but then I can not focus stack.

With other worlds, the 450D is not 100% comptible with HELICON REMOTE.
This should be state in http://www.heliconsoft.com/supported-cameras/

What CANNON camera modes are fully supported for focus stacking from HELICON REMOTE is the question at this point ?
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

Ah, yes, I forgot about this thing with the old Canons. AFAIK it's only 450D and 500D that behave this way - not that it makes them incompatible in any way!
However: you won't get away with a new Canon body either, because adjusting focus is only possible during live view. So you just cannot avoid live view AND do focus stacking at the same time. Which isn't really really a concern since you still can do everything you need, just with one extra mirror flip.
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

Thx Stas for remembering.

My problem (above) is not live view before a shot (desipte - "Activate live view when tanking a shot" = No ) but that I must set the lense to manual allowing me to shot with flash.
I want to focus stack shot with flash. For this I need the lense to be set to AF.

Since you do not like the statement "incompatible" let's say "450D & autofocus & flash" do not work with "HELICON FOCUS & focus stacking".
500D the same you say.
Will 700D, 750D and 760D work ?
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

I just received the 760D I have ordered upon your answer.

1) PC USB connected to the new camera
2) Helicon Remote v 3.3.7.0. started
3) I get the message: "EOS 760D is an unsupported camera model ..."

WHAT ???

http://www.heliconsoft.com/supported-cameras/
Canon: 1D Mark III, 1Ds Mark III, 1D Mark IV, 1D C, 1D X, 5D Mark II, 5D Mark III, 7D, 7D Mark II, 40D, 50D, 5DS, 5DS R, 60D, 70D, 100D / SL1 / Kiss X7, 450D / Rebel XSi / Kiss X2, 500D / Rebel T1i / Kiss X3, 550D / Rebel T2i / Kiss X4, 600D / Rebel T3i / Kiss X5, 650D / Rebel T4i / Kiss X6, 700D / T5i / Kiss X7i, 750D / Rebel T6i / Kiss x8i, 760D / Rebel T6s / EOS 8000D, 1000D / Rebel XS / Kiss F, 1100D / Rebel T3 / Kiss X50, 1200D / T5 / Kiss X70

!!! H E L P !!!
Treas
Posts: 7
Joined: 18.03.2016 14:13

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Treas »

... I found the reason.
In the mean time I had installed HELICON FOCUS on another PC ... and by mistake installed version 3.3.7.W

Version 3.6.6.W find and control the 760D.
APost
Posts: 1
Joined: 21.06.2016 19:51

Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by APost »

Had similar issue with 5D MkIII and studio flash fired via radio slave. I tried setting the live view to off, but flash still didn't fire. This is what I found worked for me...
1. Lens has to be on Auto Focus
2. Preferences, Shooting, Activate Live View when Taking a Shot No
3. In order to set the focus points, you have to toggle live view On using the button in the upper left under the menu bar.
I have to radically change my exposure settings in order to get an image on the live view. Shooting with Studio strobe, my shutter speed is 1/125, so with house lights, the image is black. So slow down the shutter until you can see what you need to.
4. Set near and far focus points
5. Toggle live view off using the same button.
6. NOW you can start shooting. Seems to work just fine. Bit of a pain...but accomplishing the same thing without Helicon Remote is much more difficult.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: External flash at EOS 450D fire only with TAMRON set to manual focus

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

3. You could simply disable live view exposure simulation to avoid having to adjust exposure. And then there's the live view brightness boost option in Helicon Remote preferences -> Interface.

5. That's not required, the program will turn live view off automatically based on the setting mentioned in 2.
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